TOV, TOS and the OVC

Posted: Saturday, 10 March, 2012 by deacongray in Uncategorized

a person needs new experiences. They jar something deep inside, allowing him to grow. Without change something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens.”-Dune

Jan 2012-Boise Idaho {GYP}

It was some years ago when I first saw the graceful goth in a flowing gown dancing at a club called “The Balcony”, but right away I knew I felt something. Maybe it was attraction, maybe it was what some vampires call “The Beacon” I am not sure but I knew I wanted to speak to her.  I should have been planning to listen. Over the next several years we moved independently, often bumping into each other with a knowing nod, but seldom speaking past pleasantries. She had a priestly feel to her, and I was more of a devil, but somewhere between Hell and Hell our local community started to really flourish.

For the sake of the article we will call her Cleopatra, a name she would never take for herself, but that’s what popped into my mind when I first saw her, so it will work for this article.You might be wondering why the fake name, simply ToV and ToS both require their members to keep their mouths shut. You might be wondering why I am talking to her at all, after all who is she to the OVC? The simple answer, I have never met anyone more educated in the occult or arcane, or who has an insider view to so many different organizations.

After asking her if she would take part in this article,  than assuring her I would bug her till she agreed, she invited me to coffee at her place and quickly we adjourned to the backyard were we could talk and smoke, if the cold didn’t get to us first.

GYP: So will you tell us a little bit about yourself Cleopatra?

Cleopatra:  {She laughed at this question} I’m a 40 something married woman with cats! { She laughs again} I can’t believe you are calling me Cleopatra…

GYP: Well I had to call you something and beautiful High priestess would tick you off more, so other then being less the fourty and having a few cats…

Cleopatra:  Oh, I guess I consider myself to be a student of the arcane. I have been enrolled in a lot of different organizations, everything from Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, Temple of the Vampire, Luciferian teachings of Michael Ford even some of the more well known groups in the Vampire community like the Order of the Living Vampire, and some of the more well known Houses. So basically I’m a lot like anyone who is really trying to learn.

GYP: You have said many times in the past that you wouldn’t speak about specifics of these organizations, why are you speaking now?

Cleopatra: I am still not going to speak about specifics. I agreed when I went to learn at some of these places not to run off at the mouth about them, and I don’t intend too break that agreement. People who want to feel important can take little bits of what they think they understand to  make drama. Drama causes a break down in education. My goal is to become more educated, not engage in drama.

GYP: Ok so let me start by asking, while on your search did you ever join Aset Ka?

Cleopatra: I read some of their books, and it didn’t have anything new to offer. It is kind of like those on line collages for nursing. Sure you can learn stuff, but not at the same level as some of the others, and what would you rather have at your bed side, someone who went through formal training, or someone who just read the book? I don’t have any use for revisionist history and philosophy. Besides I already read Michelle Belangers works, so seeing it re-written poorly was pointless. There might be some good teachings to be found there, but right now I see more in other places.

GYP: OK so no Aset Ka, but you are involved with the Temple of the Vampire. I always pegged that as pretty close to the same thing.

Cleopatra: in some ways it is I suppose. Still when I checked them out several years ago they seemed a jumbled mess mostly just out for money, but when I went back to check them out more recently they had re-organized their site, and the people I talked to actually seemed to have a clue. Are they out to make money?

GYP: Ok so explain this cryogenics thing to me. It has always seemed about as ridiculous as anything I have heard.

Cleopatra: I can’t explain it on a spiritual level, because I am not sure I believe in its value spiritually.  I did start to think about it more though and I can see that there might be some potential in it. I know, it sounds a little far out, but think about it for a second.

Had dinosaurs been able to pack away their genetic material what would we have been able to learn? Or, consider the various ancient tombs were they did pack away grains, that are now long extinct, only to have us find them and start growing them again. What other plants and cures have simply died out because no one preserved them?

Now think about where we are at today. We don’t know what tomorrow will hold. I don’t think I am going to be dug out of the deep freeze and be brought back to life, I am  not even sure I would want too. But, what if they could figure out a way to tap into our brains and down load knowledge?

Sure I am not Steven Hawking, but we are not talking about individual brilliance, think instead of each of us as a piece of a larger puzzle. Maybe my piece will help complete the picture, or maybe I will just end up a old lady popsicle. What I do know is this, the future isn’t truly knowable so why not see what happens?

GYP: Well, that leaves me pretty much without any good responses. 

Cleopatra: In nearly all Vampire organizations the biggest issue isn’t the educational potential, it’s the social dynamic that becomes the issue. I am a hermit when it comes to that end of things. I have been involved with Vampiric Spirituality since I was a kid, started real training in my teens, so I have over thirty years looking into all this actively. Does the OVC know me or even care? No of course not, I am not in it for the vainity, so it doesn’t matter if they know me or not. I socialize with my friends, but it doesn’t matter if they are Goths, Tech Nerds, or Witches. We don’t debate Vampirism, because we respect each others beliefs and just have fun.

Every time I have talked to someone who has been involved In the TOV that left mad, it had nearly nothing to do with their teachings, it had to do with some social aspect. When I left the TOS, it wasn’t because they had nothing more to teach me, it was because of the social dynamic getting out of hand. What I learn was to stay out of the social dynamic and focus on the educational with in those groups.

You, yourself are in the online community and what have you really learned?

GYP: I have learned a lot about the community and various different beliefs

Cleopatra: Have you really studied those beliefs? Most people don’t, they learn enough to scoff, or to feel like that have room to talk, but they really don’t know much.  Sure some do, but that is the same discipline toward education that I hold dear. The social end is…well mostly pointless bickering.

There is so little real discovery involved for most over active OVC members. To most of them it is just a blind community mantra based off the experience of a very few others, most of whom left those organizations because of some spat or another. You can’t just read surface level website and learn much of anything. You cannot put your education in cryogenic sleep and expect it to grow. Being too involved in the OVC and not enough in your own individual growth is about as close to the frozen sleep as I think you can get.

GYP: So you are saying that there is little drama or social aspects to groups like the Temple of Set or the TOV? I simply don’t buy that.

Cleopatra: No, that would be a lie. Like I said people leave both groups because of interpersonal spats, but again they were so focused on interpersonal issues that the spats became inevitable.  In the TOS we gathered and had a lot of social interactions, but even those tended to be more focused on education. We shared concepts and idea’s none of which was based off who was more important, or who had been around the longest. There was some things that just went off course, but the selection is pretty careful just to make sure people are a good fit, and sometimes people just wander off looking for somthing different. Still, we don’t see a lot of hot topic issues like “Vampire Judiciary”,  “Who is a bully” or the always important educational subject of “Negativity in the Community”

GYP: So you don’t think such topics are important?

Cleopatra: I am sure they are if you are being bullied, or surrounded by negativity, but it is not like someone is forcing people to read the sites, or even stick around. It’s cause marketing of the victim self. “I am being picked on so I am going to start an awareness campaigned! Look at me everyone, look at the important work this victim is doing! Look at me, but don’t judge me unless its positive! You don’t learn from only hearing praise. You also don’t learn if you surround yourself with people aren’t interested in learning anything except when can they get another chance to scoff, or mock someone. Turning to the OVC while bashing much more focused groups like the TOV or TOS is rediculous. I hope someday more people will focus on education, I know the Atlanta Vampire Alliance has made strives in that direction, but even their webpage as people talking about partitions in the community like any good will come of that non-sense.

GYP: What about the Order of the Living Vampire? “The Striigoi Vii”  I mean they have a pretty bad reputation in the On line Vampire Community.

Cleopatra: I think it is actually a decent place to start your education, if you go in with an open mind, and not a blind eye. The issue I ran into there was that so many of them were focused on the night life and parties that it could get hard to keep people in a conversation about ritual, or spirituality. What I found was that like every organization sometimes the best aspects of it comes not from the “Leader” but from those the leader brought into the group. I know it is not popular in your community, but I like and respect Father Sebastiaan. I don’t think he is the ”great mind” behind the teachings there, but he does lead them, and I think he has a pretty good understanding of many aspects of the Arcane, because he has a lot of people around him who are very serious about their own growth and education.

Leadership draws people from all over, it is only natural to some extent that those ideas and concepts would migrate as well. When you close yourself into a little box, you only learn what is in that box.

GYP: So if you could train someone directly what would you tell them to always remember?

Cleopatra: Well the first thing I would tell them is not to get caught up in the social games, social games have destroyed more wise people then bullets. The second thing I would tell them is to never stop searching for new concepts and diverse teachings. You have to follow your own path, but sometimes your path runs right down the middle of one already well walked. Listen to what people say about various organizations, but don’t use that as an excuse not to check them out for yourself, in depth. Take what you can, as much as you can, and then keep moving. After all ultimately all belief is individual collections of all we have experienced and learned. The next time someone goes on line and says “I’m calling Bullshit” remember it is just their opinion, no one has any “Facts” about vampirism or spirituality.

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